Columbine: What are your thoughts, ten years later?

John Russell, you are a wise man !!!.

Violence has been a part of many cultures going many years back, including ours.  Read history.  This isn't anything new.  This incident had more to do with bullying and pushing people to the edge than simple "violent video games."  It wasn't right what they did, but if you constantly bully someone, you deal with any repercussions.

JohnRussell,

You have said it exactly in your post!

Until things change, society stops sensationalizing violence, parents start

to really be a active part of their children's lives and teach them and

discipline them when they need it , other people learn to better treat

people with simple respect, teachers stand up and "teach" our children

and discipline them for their actions , law enforcement to take notice and

follow through with complaints against those children who cause trouble.

Until that day comes there will be more school violence and sadly

another Columbine.......

"Erica" Harris is the first sentence?

Should be "Eric"...

I think the media learned from this horrific day about how they cover news as it happens. It was paralyzing, horrifying and frightening to watch the news as it happened on that high school campus. I am glad that for the most part news people display some caution and respect for victims since that day.

We are living in the most troubling of times. There are horrible things being done to children right here in the US let alone across the world. Are we becoming numb to these things? I almost do not want to read or see the news recently, but that doesn't stop it from happening. We can not hide from what is happening to our world.

Has school shootings stopped? No, and now there are people shooting up places of work and social services. What is really happening to our society?

I'm still blown away that so many years later so few people have read the FBI report on what the killers actually said wrote did and intended.

The killers where not 'pushed to the edge by bullies' that is a LIE the fact is that harris and kliebold were relatively well liked and were if anything themselves bullies to underclassmen there are no reports of them being bullied in their diaries or on their blogs before the shooting. Yes they spoke of hating jocks and cheerleaders but they spoke of hating nearly every group in the school! They hated the jews and the nerds and the geeks. The fact is they hated EVERYONE. People still blame Maryln Manson but the FACT is that kliebold repeatedly called Manson 'fag rock' and said that manson should be killed.

People still talk about this as if the most important thing was that it was a 'school shooting' that didn't matter to those two. The only concern for them was body count they considered many other places before deciding on the school from the mall to the airport. They even considered hijacking a plane and ramming it into a building!

One of the reasons that this kind of crap continues is that we as a society keep our heads in the sand. Learning just enough about these situations to run our mouths and baaah like the collective sheep we are. Anyone who looks past the media filter on these two troubled youths sees that there were signs, there were LOTS of signs, over crowded school, the run away mall cop mentality, lazy authority that would rather strain the fly and swallow the camel are all to blame. However the MAIN problem is the news itself. These two young men wanted fame and all they had was hate, how better to satisfy both of these things?

The answer is obvious even to us, and most of us aren't even crazy!

I'm still blown away that so many years later so few people have read the FBI report on what the killers actually said wrote did and intended.

The killers where not 'pushed to the edge by bullies' that is a LIE the fact is that harris and kliebold were relatively well liked and were if anything themselves bullies to underclassmen there are no reports of them being bullied in their diaries or on their blogs before the shooting. Yes they spoke of hating jocks and cheerleaders but they spoke of hating nearly every group in the school! They hated the jews and the nerds and the geeks. The fact is they hated EVERYONE. People still blame Maryln Manson but the FACT is that kliebold repeatedly called Manson 'fag rock' and said that manson should be killed.

People still talk about this as if the most important thing was that it was a 'school shooting' that didn't matter to those two. The only concern for them was body count they considered many other places before deciding on the school from the mall to the airport. They even considered hijacking a plane and ramming it into a building!

One of the reasons that this kind of crap continues is that we as a society keep our heads in the sand. Learning just enough about these situations to run our mouths and baaah like the collective sheep we are. Anyone who looks past the media filter on these two troubled youths sees that there were signs, there were LOTS of signs, over crowded school, the run away mall cop mentality, lazy authority that would rather strain the fly and swallow the camel are all to blame. However the MAIN problem is the news itself. These two young men wanted fame and all they had was hate, how better to satisfy both of these things?

The answer is obvious even to us, and most of us aren't even crazy!

Very good response by Mark Rounds. I wish this didn't turn into a political battle, and the truth was actually told about these two and their intentions. Also, don't tell me that 4/20 didn't have anything to do with it. The FBI says this date is purely coincidental, but It's just too obvious. Anyway, the plans of these two foreshadowed 9/11, and they weren't islamic; just wanted to kill as many as they could.

John Russell you said it all. So very true! Anne

As a Canadian we have our share of problems, but if you listen to the song by the Trews called Gun Control, it says it all.

A couple excerpts,

Why Why Why do they second guess Gun Control?

If he couldn't get a gun there'd be nobody dead

In Canada in 2007 we killed 188 people by guns and killed 190 by stabbing. I happen to live in the Murder Capital of Canada and we killed 62 people in 2008, with a poplulation of 700k, which makes Winnipeg the second most dangerous city in Canada.

Maybe we need knife control here??

With the 24hr news channels they will need to and continually sensationalize the negativities of society, because we keep watching. As Canadain news is boring compared to you guys.

Take care and good luck all.

ZZ

Nothing new or original has been asked or stated here, but it still is true.

How true!. And where were the PARENTS of these warped children that thought life is a Video Game?.

You've said it so wise. Until the media stops covering these incidents, and showing it in FULL detail, things won't change. It was a VERY horrible thing that happened. I was in high school watching it, and was in complete shock. The news media, doing their jobs made it look glorified. Then other kids started to do it as well. Whenever this stuff happens, nobody thinks of the families, intstead they just want to get it out there. After that sad day, all the schools in my area started to have their own incidents. Stop the copycats and remember what happened. If only the parents would've know a little about their childs life, it might have had a different outcome.

from the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks...

When we insist that we are evolved animals;
when we live on a consistent diet of violence and agression;
as we fill our minds with 'man' as the highest value;
Columbines result.
Varied atrocities with different aparent reasons, but the same core element missing.

We have wantered from the truth.
It is a global phenomenon

We live in culture that disconnects gun-loving trigger pullers from what happens at the other end. I'm a Vietnam Veteran. I was a Captain and an advisor. I just saw a television special on MSNBC about kids and guns that absolutely horrified me. I saw whole families using military weapons for sport. They talked about the noise, the recoil and the thrill of blasting things downrange. Old cars and trucks went up in flames. Five-year olds were firing machine guns while adults had a blast with anti-tank rockets. Fun for the whole family! The vast majority of these gun-loving wanna-be's have never been to war or close to one. They think it's like a big fireworks show.

A 50.cal machine gun, which one amateur was blazing away with, can cut a man in half, blow out all his guts and leave his shredded body all over the battlefield. What happens on the receiving end is horrific beyond your imagining. And these idiots just think it's a lot of clean, wholesome fun. The kids, like the dad's, have never had to walk through the corpses or hear the screams. It's all like a big video game. Guess what? So if the troubled kid shoots up the classroom and some kids...IT"S NOT REAL. This is profound stupidity, and total disconnection from what can happen when people play with heavy weapons, or even light weapons, for fun. Every one of these unbelievably naive people shoud be forced to watch, "We Were Soldiers Once, And Young" or maybe "Full Metal Jacket." But even those powerful films can't convey the stench of death, or the years of misery and despair that follow a full-on application of military weapons.

As a nation, what are we thinking?

I don't understand how everyone can blame the actions of those two on video games. In every single society, there has been a glorification of violence. In ancient Rome, there were the gladiatorial games/sacrifices (which were much more violent and gruesome than anything today). In the Americas there was tons of human sacrifice; violence is a normal part of society. However, as we have evolved, the amount of violence and specifically its glorification has steadily decreased to the point where it cannot really be blamed for anyones actions, but that their individual upbringings have had the worst effect.

You are right.In Galatians 6:7-man reap what he sow. You sow violence,destruction and death in the hearts of your children,you will reap violence,destruction and death from them.Out of the abundance of the heart,the mouth speaks,what the mouth speaks ,your body will do. Why?American educational institution rejects God.They stop reading and meditating God's Words in school and they stop praying in school.If you remove God in your midst,the devil steps in. After U.S. gov't. remove God in school , teenage pregnancy doubles a year after and increase in leaps and bounds the next . School incident of gangs and petty crimes increase the same.

In family life,they remove also fellowship with God on Sunday.Replace it with sports,partying,and other activities.The parents have less time with their children.Allow TV , violent movies, vulgar and sexually charge music and violent video games to nanny and take care of the children. Then if you remove God in the family life,the devil steps in. Majority of todays children, doesn't know God and His ways. It is not a surprise if we see shooting spree and killing in the streets being done by your children simply they manifest the fruits of their hearts and minds.

Question,Right now,as parents,grandparents,uncles or elders of your children.Do you petition our and your government to put back the reading,meditating and teaching the Word of God in the Holy Bible and prayer in all public and private school in all states?

If you say YES,write a petition to our congressman and all of us must fix our signature.

If you say NO,then do not be surprise if more massacre and random killings will come.It will increase in numbers,frequency and more violent than Columbine. It will increase and became widespread. God forbids.

Lord God,Father in heaven,we pray that you touch us and rebuke us in our sins.We ask Your forgiveness of our sins and iniquities and forgive the iniquities of our forefathers.We repent that we forsake Your Words and believe in our deceptions and earthly wisdom. We repent that we became materialistic,proud and lustful in our lives.We repent that we neglected our children.We repent our evil and wicked ways.Forgive us Father.For we had sinned against You and we sinned against our children.Lord God, cleanse us with Your Word and wash us with the Blood of Lord Jesus Christ. Restore us and we invite You back in our lives.We welcome back in our family life and be the center of our lives.Lead us and teach us again in Your Ways and let Your Spirit guide us everyday.We welcome You back in our school.You teach ,train and lead our children in their studies through Your Words.We ask these in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ and Power of the Holy Spirit.Amen.

Syn Holliday, it has nothing to do with history, what are you, what were you when you came out of the womb? you are human!!!! It is our human nature but a choice that we consider before our actions are taken.

I think this is the stupidest thing to glorify people who shot all these people thats what they wanted was to be imortal for what they did and we give it to them year after year!!! another aniversary of mass shootings of someone on 5 life counts of punishment waisting the tax payers dollars 70,000.00 a year!! REMEMBER PEOPLE TOLERANCE!! it wasn't video games they were born with it!!! they couldn't help it thay didn't know what they were thinking. no one has a choice in their actions we are just products of our evironment !!

There is no way to stop/prevent/identify that does not seriously interfere with the liberties of everyone else. Even then, these types of events will continue to occur - witness the fact that they do in those countries/states/cities that try such restrictions/pre-emptions/etc.

Police response could be improved (remember: when seconds count; the police are only minutes away), but that would be difficult without the ability to ignore personal liberty.

There is also the option of individuals being able to address such issues on-the-spot. Unfortunately, we are - as a populace - not to be considered mature, or responsible enough. This is because we would have to learn - and be reasonably proficient at - forms of violence sufficient to stop these acts. Worse yet, we would need to have the appropriate tools on hand - ready for use - at that moment.

Yes - guns, clubs, knives, et al.

Even then, there will be violence - but the body count will be less.

If you are going to simply depend on "official, authorized" responses, or throw your liberties to the wind for "protection", you might just as well resign yourself to the sorrow and wasted questions.

Really - it's your choice, America

To me it is sad the way violence is so played in our media and culture. Children become amumed to voilent behavior where it becomes the norm. You have to ask your self as parents what kinds of movies, music, games, internet , face book, twitter(chatter) are they involved into. you could be surprised. also cell phone activites . The old fashion concept the more intuned you are with your children most important keep and open dialouge with the no matter the subject matter. pay attention to the small signs as well. Moral standard start in the home, not church the church is a tool .

When people say that our culture glorifies violence, which part of our culture? Not me. Not my friends. Not my church. So who is doing that? Hollywood is. Television and movies are what glorify sex and violence and distrepect for the law and for moral values. When are they going to step up and take responsibility for their role in all of this? And the video games, which these guys were so into. And yes the teaching of evolution. Eric and Dylan justified their actions based on evolution. They wrote this in their documents as their reasoning. I heard that Eric's shirt he was wearing through it all had a reference to evolution on it, like natural selection or something like that. Is that true?

my daughter and a few other students along with teachers and some parents have been put on a childs "kill list", this is very disturbing and the school seems to not be worried. my daghter has been threatened to be stabbed by this student. i have made police reports and the school still is not very concerned. the student was suspended for 10 days and suspension was lifted 2 days early because of a test. our school does not follow the "zero tollerance" policy. could anyone give me advise as to what i should do next. i have been to the board of education and they feel this is no big deal also.

Appeal to all parents:

Be aware of where your children are, what they are doing and with whom they are doing it!!

If you suspect anti-social behavior and dangerous behavior, contact your school, county, law enforcement or social services.

God bless all fallen and wounded at Columbine. We have not forgotten you.

Mark Rounds,

One of the reasons that this kind of crap continues is that we as a society keep our heads in the sand. Learning just enough about these situations to run our mouths and baaah like the collective sheep we are. Anyone who looks past the media filter on these two troubled youths sees that there were signs, there were LOTS of signs ...

How's it feel to be spot on?

But be careful. Don't cast your pearls before swine, they'll tear you apart. The Internet is society's biggest sandpile.

Columbine: I lived in Denver when this happened and I went to the memorial hill where the 15 crosses were originally planted....I gave me respects to each of the 15 victims. Later, when the Rocky Mountain News published a photo of the 15 crosses, I came to believe that this event came down to one question asked about the society we live in: Are there 13 crosses or 15 crosses on that hillside? Your answer is how you live and give to people in your life. It comes down to forgiveness. I visited the hillside before the two other crosses were destroyed by the devisiveness of our society. Thank you for publishing a photo of 15 crosses...I counted. It's all about forgiveness. Peace.

Violence shouldn't be glorified as much as it is, but being anti-social doesn't make you a killer. If these kids were planning it and trying to out do the Oklahoma City Bombing, then why wasn't anything done about it? Why were Harris and Klybold allowed to be pushed to the point of really doing it? Can't blame the music or the lifestyle they chose, just because the were wierd people. People ignored there claims and kept on pushing them. High School is evil and can be cruel. I was 16 when this happened, an anti-social "goth" as they were labbled and I had to deal with the same torrment they did. Even after the shooting happend, me and some of my friends got called out for being "goths" and was threatened to be kick out of school because kids thought, just because we were "goths" that we would do the same thing. But I would never have gone and did what they did. No one can posibly fathom what was in their minds 10years ago, it was tratic and people still are asking why it happened. Blame the school, blame the parents, blame the music, blame their morbid minds, we can't blame anyone because the people who could tell us what went on in their minds are not here anymore because they didn't want to live on in this world. It's the saddest thing I can remember from my high school days, and I can't imagine what the people from that school go through. I still clearly remember being sent to home room and watching the news as everything unfolded and feeling fear for everyone left inside. But authorities, schools, and some parents haven't learned anything to prevent stuff like this from happening. Kids are still allowed to torrment other kids, the police dont' care untill it is already happening, and some parents these days don't take interest in their childrens activities, which is very sad.

John, you are woefully ignorant of history. We live in one of the most peaceful, non-violent times in all of history. Government in most countries is so dominant compared to the individual that the commoner barely has room to breathe- so people act sheeplike and trudge and drudge on their daily way. If this were truly a violent society, how many would have taken up arms already against the outrages of the wealthy and elites over the last twenty years? The violence that you speak of, that is almost entirely among the poor and desperate, is indicative of their plight. Colombine? Many kids would have been saved except for cowardly cops.

This is the price of freedom. As long as we are willing to pay it, we will never be free.

AS a teacher of high school students for 38 years ,I have seen many changes, in students. They are technologically savvy, but have no imaginion. Much of it comes from "instant everything. I want it and I want it now." Students are not happy;perhaps because of such a materialistic society. They have little or no spirituality, and I do not mean religion. Litle value is placed on learning in our society. Yes, we are a society that places honor on the negative. News media, video games, but also a lack of parenting plays a big part. Parents need to be in touch with their kids. Kids want boundaries. And being politically correct is part of it. We need to call it, whatever it is, instead of coddling. I have seen a huge change in my students just s since cell phones and they will tell you themselves that it has brought more drama. Hormones and drama are not good together. My dad said it best before he died." Until we make education a privilege and not a right, public education is doomed." I am glad he is not alive to see it now. I enjoy my job because I CHOOSE to take something positive out of it everyday. I get along with my students. But I see" wanna be Columbiners" everyday. It is self hatred. My school is rural and country, but they are out there. We could head them off, but nobody wants to spend the money on psychologists in school, so as one writer wrote and I hate to be negative" They are there, just waiting to happen". Hillary Clinton said it best" It takes a village to raise a child" and many of mine do not have even one adult, save their teacher . who really cares. Teachers ARE the parents today, often. And believe me TEST SCORES are not the answer for public education. Dylan and Eric were just sociopathic. But somebody saw something wrong before they did what they did. But we have to NOT be afraid of the school board, principal, parents, superintendents and lawyers to make someone see that these kids need help before it is another Viriginia Tech , Columbine etc. I think Columbine has come a long yay in 10 years. But everything we, as public educators , were promised after Columbine such as safety changes, psychologists on campus, etc. never came true. All I can do , as one , single high school teacher is tell them there is a dark spot in all our heads, We can feed it with evil and it will take over our whole brain or we can starve it be trying to be a good and serving person ready to help others. The choice is theirs, and the results, if these kids are not helped is ours..

I think Columbine was the beginning. Since then we have had so many school shootings all over the country that it seems impossible. When I went to high school, all the kids in our school got along fine. There were even a couple of American Nazi's that went to our high school but they were afraid of the footballplayers and didn't do much for fear of the football players.

My grandson was pushed into the snowbank when he got off the bus and we had just moved here and he didn't even go report it but a girl saw it and she went and turned the boy in and he was suspended. The boy and all his brothers were bullies and all got suspended at one time or another.

All the games that my grandsons play are all full of violence and killing and with the wrong kind of supervision or the wrong kind of thoughts they could all and all there friends could become killers but I don't think my grandsons could have guns without me knowing it like the boys at Columbine did and their parents were teachers. The police in this county are very tough on all misdomeaners or felons so that is another hindrance. They catch them young and punish the parents with fines and the kids with classes.

Most of you people just AMAZE me. I wonder how many are parents? Surely, not many of you actually had any relationship with the people involved in this tragedy. Analyzing "other people's" problems like specimens under a microscope or columns of numbers -- blaming anything and anyone you can. What a sad testimony you all are to the human spirit -- your total lack of empathy, your total lack of respect for human life and loss. You are RETARDED -- emotionally retarded. I watched the nightmare unfold, five miles from where I was -- in total disbelief, total shock, and engulfed by so much sadness -horrified beyond belief, as children around me mourned the loss of more than just friends and endured the scrunity of a nation, so you could all sit on your haunches and do exactly what you're doing now. As for the self-proclaimed "experts" who've read the report in it's entirety -- you can read -- good for you. You're still not an expert; go volunteer at an elementary school and DO SOME GOOD. It's a horribly sad Anniversary to remember, but we've lost friends and family -- that's why WE remember.

Most of you people simply amaze me. I wonder how many of you are parents? Obviously, not many of you actually knew anyone involved in this horror. Nearly all of you seem RETARDED, emotionally retarded, showing no empathy, no respect for human life and loss -- able to sit there and analyze others' source of pain as though it's a speciman under a microscope or a column of numbers. You sit looking for someone or something to blame -- STOP IT! I was five miles from Columbine, watching it unfold, literally unable to accept that it was happening... horrified as the children around me lost so much more than friends. There are some things in life that have no explanation -- they are too horrible for words... I'm sure you can all think of something. Instead of reading the hideous report, go and read to some elementary students -- DO SOME GOOD. Your obnoxious debates change nothing and only show your lack of humanity. Its a sad Anniversary -- Just let it be.

Look, Americans don't believe in tolerance. As a conservative Republican of the Great State of Texas, bullying does not have to be tolerated. Anyone has the right to resort to violence to resolve conflicts. I'm sure our last Great President, George W. Bush agrees.

Very well put, JohnRussell!

In addition, I'd like to add that a co-worker's daughters were in the library with Lauren; one severly wounded. While only 1 daughter was actually wounded by shots, both suffer tremendously to this day.

This cannot happen again. I weigh all the reasons, alternatives, etc. and the only way I can see of preventing this is some kind of gun control.

I know that's gonna start a slew of hate responses, but we have to think about this! If Dylan and Eric had not had access to firearms (legal or otherwise), my co-worker's daughters may not have been as severly wounded, both physically and otherwise...

Agreed...

I also particularly feel that whenever something like that happens there is a tendency on the part of institutions to "cover themselves" and when something comes up that indidcated otherwise then one statrs to wonder...

I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement "What can we as a society do to prevent the development of such similar evils?"

Columbine broke my heart. I was teaching high school at the time when it happened.

As a teacher we are on the 'front lines' of this problem. It is one thing to end it when the kids are in the classroom, but another thing when our students leave, even if only for recess or lunch. When I see something like bullying within the class I stop it immediately, and deal with it. When they leave the classroom, what goes on at lunch or recess is a whole different game. Kids are smart enough to put on a 'game face' in class, but the moment they leave it is tough. I am not saying this as an excuse but this is the truth. Parents first, need to deal with this, then schools. If parents start this 'investment' in their kids then teachers can continue to help solve this problem.

I remember being really shocked. I live in a small county in Kansas. This happened at one of our schools. But luckly the four boys were discovered before anything terrible could happen. One of the students had the good sence to report their actions to the authorities. Carol, Kansas

Lots of people seem to be complaining about how cops haven't learned, aren't able to handle situations like this.

Try throwing a badge on yourself and taking an oath to take bullets for strangers. Let's see how well you handle being thrown into random unexpected violent situations. I say we stop complaining about the job our police do and start thanking them EVERY DAY for the sacrifice they make for everyone, even those who don't appreciate them.

Lots of people seem to be complaining about how cops haven't learned, aren't able to handle situations like this.

Try throwing a badge on yourself and taking an oath to take bullets for strangers. Let's see how well you handle being thrown into random unexpected violent situations. I say we stop complaining about the job our police do and start thanking them EVERY DAY for the sacrifice they make for everyone, even those who don't appreciate them.

:

Do the police know better how to react to such events?

I'd laugh cynically if this wasn't a matter to be laughing at. The cops can't handle routine events, let alone school shootings.

To say the police have learned anything is ridiculous and shows your ignorance. I am a Police Officer and I can tell you for a fact that many departments changed their policies on how to handle a similar situation. We no longer set up a perimeter and wait it out, we are trained to storm the building and look for the suspect and neutralize the threat asap. People just have no clue what it takes to put on the uniform with pride everyday and serve the very people that want to do him / her harm day in and day out. We are much better equipped now, most departments issue patrol rifles to all units. If it happened today it would have been handled much differently.

Andrew, your points are garbage. The cops at Colombine, like most places, were cowards. They stayed outside in fear of personal safety (from teens!) in lieu of saving children. Where are these cops who "take bullets for strangers?" What sacrifices to cops make except for bullying enforcement of rules they dont follow themselves? The police are maggots on the body of society- stay away from these pages with your pitiful propoganda.

I agree with you Andrew. All of us should "Thank" any Man or Woman we see in uniform for the "Service they do for us Everyday. Policemen, Firemen, EM T's, and especially our Men and Women in the Military, at home and overseas. When these hero's get up every morning, kiss their family goodbye, they don't know if it will be their last goodbye kiss. Anything can happen when dealing with the public on a day to day basis. What happen that day did not have anything to do with Police response time, or if the Police acted in the right manner. But, it had everything to do with those two boys "response time". Their planning and thoughts was never known to anyone until it happen. Don't blame the police, the teachers, the other students of that school, the parents, the people of the town, none of these fine people had any idea of what was going to happen that morning. You blame the boys who did the awful act. It's just as simple as that.

As for the bullying of children. That has happen since I was in school 50 years ago. You don't teach your children to fight, BUT, it is important to teach your children to defend themselves and not let the bullying continue, and it can be done without violence.

I was born with a lazy eye and picked on in school and called names, left out of schoolyard games all my life. I didn't go out get a gun and start shooting people. I learned words. I then defended myself with a sense of humor and words and phrase that put people in their place in a nice manner. Because most of the time the people doing the bullying were not smart enough to know what I was telling them. They left me alone after they looked up what I had told them. (LOL) The same thing is happening with my grandchildren today. Bullying never stops. But, you can control it. I still believe in all the Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, including the one that says the right to bear arms. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. And that is still true today. We have to teach our children and grandchildren, right from wrong, and that when you play a game one team wins and one team looses. If we keep pampering them and pushing too liberal ideas on them, (like some of the schools are doing today). We will raise a generation of sheep who will follow the first symbol that comes along that looks like a leader, and they can be lead down any road without questioning anything. I'm just sayin'.........

Society/people within society should not:

1. Blame drugs
2. Blame violent video games
3. Blame violence on the big or small screen
4. Say "my child would never bully anyone"
5. Blame the violence on the guns. Society SHOULD blame the people that pulled the trigger.

It all comes down to personal responsibility. If parents take responsibility for teaching their kids not to bully, if parents take an active role in their children's lives (whether the kids like it or not), and if teachers and schools refuse to tolerate bullying of any kind this kind can be prevented.

Yikes! What a mess. If you want to blame the people who pulled the trigger, then just do it. But you have have far more in the way of excuses for the people who pulled the trigger than you do blame. Victimhood at the hands of bullies is not liscense to pull wings off of flies, let alone blow a dozen other kids and teachers away.

John, the point is to illustrate that you can't just blame drugs, or guns, or violence in video games for these kinds of things.

I don't know HOW many times I've heard in recent days "If only assault weapons were illegal this never would have happened." WRONG. The gun is not the problem. The person is the problem.

There is no one cause for anything, of course, and nowhere did I state that being a victim of bullies licenses anyone to kill. I resent your implication that I stated as much.

John, I think that Mystic Chick was very careful to explicitly state in point #5 that society should blame the people that pulled the trigger. That would, rationally, include those kids that chose to harm others by committing a school shooting.

Agreed with Mystic Chick but don't you think that a substance can cause addiction if taken for a long time. e.g If I am in a world where there is violence but iam not violent, it would not take me long to become like others. Common example is school kids who get bullied and they bully others inturn when they are older.

This is the best response on here.

According to one old saying "everything in moderation", only so much can be expected from parents and schools or from society. In my lifetime, the world has changed so dramatically in so many ways that I rely on my children and grandchildren to keep me abreast of current events, while I provide the irony and lessons of history. There was a time when we could look primarily to a child's parents and teachers and clergymen to find the answers to a child's misbehaviors and dangerous attitudes. But that ship has sailed.

In modern society we can only address those parts of the puzzle we have power to create or power to change. How can we expect a young man or women to correctly decide between pro-choice and pro-life; between scientific discovery and religious teachings; or among his/her friends - if there are no true differences between the Taliban and the Southern Baptists - between Black Water and the Republican Guard - or between Rush Limbaugh and Tokyo Rose? How can we teach our children the responibilities of society and citizenship when both the government and the teachers unions are both simply modern corporate agencies that cannot differentiate between public policy and private enterprise? At some point in history, your questions were engaging, innovative and challenging. Today, they are as useful as the arguments against smoking and banning the bra. Today, "everything in moderation", including the lessons we once believed to be universally true. We must trust and support our children to supply the answers for those questions their generation must face - and to solve the problems our generation has presented them.

I'm glad nobody mindlessly mentioned gun laws. I'm sure these kids didn't own these guns legally, so it's irrelevant. On second thought, it IS relevant. Banning guns, like banning marijuana, or alcohol (Prohibition), creates a bigger demand in the black market, thus making illegal gun sales more prevalent. The black market doesn't normallly discrminate based on age, as long as the kid has the cash, so had guns been illegal, it would be even easier for kids to get their hands on them. It's the reason why it's easier for kids to get pot than alcohol.

Columbine also broke my heart.and to those who wish to continue to lay blame on the police, just stop it...unless you are a police officer or employed by a police department, you don't know how these things are handled. YOUR way is NOT the cop's way...

I still cry when I see the pictures being presented again and again...but obviously no one has figured out how to read a troubled teens mind...I was employed at a police department...my children and grandchildren attended a school in the same school district as Columbine...and I was so deeply saddened by this event. It has affected me probably for the rest of my life.

I have deep sympathy for the parents of the victims...but also for the parents of the two troubled young men( they also lost their children that day)...they WERE trying to get them help...at least Eric's parents were...I just can't read too much of the report as its still too hurtful...but I probably know the story by heart anyway.

By the way, to the author of this article...you spelled Eric, ERICA. Just an FYI

I agree with you Agnon btu...................parents have to stay next to their children and that, at this very moment, is not the case.

In a system who require to squeeze the citizen in order to substain the state's problems, it become a social problem due the lack in presence from the only autority that a child can identify in is early stage.

We are suffering and swollowing this sad reality but we must accept that the human being has lost a lot in terms of self identity and self confidence, dedicating all the time in order to mignify the social existance.

How to blame the kids, no control on their daily life it's equal to loose any confidence from thei side. The screen is doing the rest of the job trough massive non-sense programs. The TV doesn't edeucate it destroy good mind and confing them into the dark corner of existance.

Sorry for my english, I'm italian and not un accademic-one because when I was fourteen I had to work in order to help my family to survive.

Thanks

I agree with you Agnon btu...................parents have to stay next to their children and that, at this very moment, is not the case.

In a system who require to squeeze the citizen in order to substain the state's problems, it become a social problem due the lack in presence from the only autority that a child can identify in is early stage.

We are suffering and swollowing this sad reality but we must accept that the human being has lost a lot in terms of self identity and self confidence, dedicating all the time in order to mignify the social existance.

How to blame the kids, no control on their daily life it's equal to loose any confidence from thei side. The screen is doing the rest of the job trough massive non-sense programs. The TV doesn't edeucate it destroy good mind and confing  them into the dark corner of existance.

Sorry for my english, I'm italian and not un accademic-one because when I was fourteen I had to work in order to help my family to survive.

Thanks

Anyfishinsea-- if I asked if you were drawing a paycheck from a political party, would you answer?

Tom, I would be saying exactly the same things, and I'm 15, with a middle-of-the road political opinion (yep, that's right: I'm neither a conservative or a liberal. Read it and weep). Or at least some of them anyway. While I believe that parents or the government or the media should NOT try to influence children's opinions to any significant degree (I actually have lengthy philosophical discussions with my father on various world issues on a fairly regular basis), I think that old teachings of "Treat thy neighbour as thou wouldst treat thyself" and so on (without the Biblical context, for I am an atheist) are a good idea, and will remain so. However, people should be free to form their opinions BASED ON INFORMATION PRESENTED TO THEM, and not the narrow-minded prejudices of a rapidly aging establishment. Hell, even here in Canada I don't fit into any of the existing political parties, which either lean left or right. And here I am sittin' in the middle, trying to explain my ideas to others.

As for Anyfishinsea's assertation that "We must trust and support our children to supply the answers for those questions their generation must face - and to solve the problems our generation has presented them", I absolutely agree. Last I checked, it was YOUR generation that has been hacking down rainforests, spreading religious values without any mindfullness of the intent behind them (a guide to life, not a strict set of rules), starting wars, and generally staring at the neighbours over your collective moats. See, it's not our generation that's the problem, it's yours. The people at my school are proof of this. Recently, a group of 2000 teenagers was able to raise over CAD$50000 for charity, and we are currently fundraising to send a heart-transplant survivor (also a student here) to the Transplant Games in Australia next summer. See, instead of focusing on the negative like you're doing here, why not emphasise positivity? I sincerely believe that school shootings are a relic of a more barbarous era, and will soon become little more than an unpleasant memory.

that has got to be about the stupidest most useless time ive ever spent on the computer, reading this post...

for god sake do you think anyone here cares about you and your political stance? not only are you only 15, youre a canadian. even if you could vote it would only be a canadian vote, and the exchange rate on votes is probably 5000 to 1 american vote. meaning that politically you are useless.

i hope that jesus christ comes down and beats you with a stick....

have a lengthy philisophical conversation about deez nutz with your beaver loving canadian father, curling freaks.

and for your information generations have grown steadily worse and worse for about the last..... ever, so even though you technically havent done anything yet doesnt mean you wont. but you are a canadian, and will probably grow to be a lumberjack or moosehunter......

whatever it is you freaks do

Mystic Chick, you seem to be implying that nothing influences anything. Children are not influenced in their behavior by anything they see, do, or experience.

If that is the case, there is no point to parenting at all.

But if you also believe parents and/or teachers can control bullying, you have forgotten what it was like to be a teenager. By the time a child is a teenager, parents and teachers have little control over the dynamics of their relationships, or their behavior.

Let's see, what would you personally not do? The screen name of Mystic Chick implies that you might have a fondness for nature. You wouldn't torture a small animal, would you? And yet, if from early childhood you watched videos of attractive, powerful people torturing animals, and you played interactive games in which the point was to torture animals, and you fell asleep at night listening to music about the joys of torturing animals, and you bought clothing printed with various sentiments indicating that animals are expendible, and you tatooed your body with the same sentiments, and many of your friends casually tortured small animals -- but your parents said it isn't nice to do that... ???

People want to point to something or someone and say "this is the problem" or "you are at fault." But it's rarely that simple. Children develop their concepts based on a wide scope of observations and experiences. When the preponderance is that violence is sexy, powerful, and fun, an increasingly large percentage of children will commit violence.

As is happening.

I agree with your statement 100%. We are a race of monkey see monkey do. Yet has anyone looked into the effects of antidepressants and their relationship to children who take up arms? You will be surprised on what you will find out. The ever more shooking eye opener is why hasen't any of this been reported on? Why hasn't the FDA done their own investigations. Sounds like someone threw a bunch of money at someone.

Wow, so many opinions! I think that most people commenting on this tragic subject have some good ideas, and some of them are on the mark, some are close, and some are just way off or based only on perception without examining what is really going on. We can all speculate, may be wrong or right but we need to realize that there are real reasons for these sorts of things to happen. (People don't just kill with no reason.) For someone to commit such a heinous crime, in my opinion, there are different reasons in each case. I don't know what triggers each individual or group to commit violence per se, BUT there are known factors. According to reputable studies, most school shooters HAVE been either bullied at school, and/or been mistreated at home. I know that some people don't think that violent video games, music or movies can cause this, but there also are documented studies that show a strong correlation between exposure to violence- including from these forms of media, and by being either abused or a witness to abuse, and therefore I respectfully have to disagree with those who think that these factors do not play a role in the committing of violent acts. It's also true that there are those who are exposed to such things and don't act out what they are exposed to, so this shows that there is either self-control in play here, or the person hasn't thought about committing such violent acts to the point that it actually happens, or something else stops them from doing so. Yes, it is the individual person him or herself, BUT people are influenced either positively or negatively by exposure to various things. The thought must precede the act, in most cases, with exception of those who may be impulsive and act out without thinking, or in rare cases those with organic brain damage or even certain mental illnesses that can cause one to become violent.

Though generally, YOU HAVE TO THINK IT BEFORE YOU DO IT!!!

It's also true that these things are inexcusable, but they happen because of real reasons. Whether or not we can know of the motive of a killer or potential killer, something had to trigger the violence first. Even though I highly doubt that all of these types of crimes will stop, especially since we have seen an even more increased level and amount of violence, we can still try to observe those out there who are being mistreated through teasing, bullying, or other forms of abuse to and try to understand them, to talk to them, to just treat them like human beings. If someone is acting out, to be aware and to let someone know. There are programs to try to reduce bullying, but unfortunately as a poster said, it is still going on. Child abuse is still going on, and wishing it away will not stop it, only by noticing signs of it, and taking the appropriate action will it lessen, though unfortunately will not probably stop because of how our society is, and that includes how it glorifies, accepts, and excuses violence!

Also, there is an increase in violence in other areas, and I don't think it will stop, it will go up and down like a roller coaster, with more cases happening when people are stressed to the breaking point, as with the epidemic of killings that have been happening. So, to be aware, to be safe, and to try to model a non-violent life, and to get out of a violent situation or help another to do so, even if you need to get the help of others to do this, can all reduce violence.

So we can have : less victimization, less pain, less viciousness, less hate, and instead: an increase of love, of tolerance, of acceptance, for brighter and better days ahead, that is my wish of hope.

C.Canadian:

Philosophical discussions notwithstanding:

Parents MUST attempt to influence their children - it is their responsibility to teach them, so they may have the background for future opinions - even if they are different.

The MEDIA wants to; they need to sell a product - and have an unwavering desire to manipulate people towards their own ideals (whichever side of the fence).

Government NEEDS to; their very survival depends on such influence.

Your assertion: "people should be free to form their opinions BASED ON INFORMATION PRESENTED TO THEM" begs a response;

The freedom to form an opinion is inherent: short of death, we will have them for any subject that interests us - the willingness to state it might find constraint (it shouldn't) - the willingness to act will need courage.

But - "BASED ON INFORMATION PRESENTED TO THEM" is influence; which you state no one (parents, media, government) should attempt.

It is the attempts at influence that give us what we need to make an opinion - knowledge.

Wow, so many opinions! I think that most people commenting on this tragic subject have some good ideas, and some of them are on the mark, some are close, and some are just way off or based only on perception without examining what is really going on. We can all speculate, may be wrong or right but we need to realize that there are real reasons for these sorts of things to happen. (People don't just kill with no reason.) For someone to commit such a heinous crime, in my opinion, there are different reasons in each case. I don't know what triggers each individual or group to commit violence per se, BUT there are known factors. According to reputable studies, most school shooters HAVE been either bullied at school, and/or been mistreated at home. I know that some people don't think that violent video games, music or movies can cause this, but there also are documented studies that show a strong correlation between exposure to violence- including from these forms of media, and by being either abused or a witness to abuse, and therefore I respectfully have to disagree with those who think that these factors do not play a role in the committing of violent acts. It's also true that there are those who are exposed to such things and don't act out what they are exposed to, so this shows that there is either self-control in play here, or the person hasn't thought about committing such violent acts to the point that it actually happens, or something else stops them from doing so. Yes, it is the individual person him or herself, BUT people are influenced either positively or negatively by exposure to various things. The thought must precede the act, in most cases, with exception of those who may be impulsive and act out without thinking, or in rare cases those with organic brain damage or even certain mental illnesses that can cause one to become violent.

Though generally, YOU HAVE TO THINK IT BEFORE YOU DO IT!!!

It's also true that these things are inexcusable, but they happen because of real reasons. Whether or not we can know of the motive of a killer or potential killer, something had to trigger the violence first. Even though I highly doubt that all of these types of crimes will stop, especially since we have seen an even more increased level and amount of violence, we can still try to observe those out there who are being mistreated through teasing, bullying, or other forms of abuse to and try to understand them, to talk to them, to just treat them like human beings. If someone is acting out, to be aware and to let someone know. There are programs to try to reduce bullying, but unfortunately as a poster said, it is still going on. Child abuse is still going on, and wishing it away will not stop it, only by noticing signs of it, and taking the appropriate action will it lessen, though unfortunately will not probably stop because of how our society is, and that includes how it glorifies, accepts, and excuses violence!

Also, there is an increase in violence in other areas, and I don't think it will stop, it will go up and down like a roller coaster, with more cases happening when people are stressed to the breaking point, as with the epidemic of killings that have been happening. So, to be aware, to be safe, and to try to model a non-violent life, and to get out of a violent situation or help another to do so, even if you need to get the help of others to do this, can all reduce violence.

So we can have : less victimization, less pain, less viciousness, less hate, and instead: an increase of love, of tolerance, of acceptance, for brighter and better days ahead, that is my wish of hope.

Do we really need to blame anybody? Why can't we just call it as we see it and deal with it. Some people need to do a reality check on their kids. As parents you need to know what you are sending to the schools to be taught by the schools. The main people that don't think your child would do something wrong or you think "Not my child" yes your child; will be the main one to be caught in the mix. I teach and I see what you don't see. Get involved more than just coming to the PTA meetings and booster clubs. Come in the school on a school day and ask to see what your child is doing during the day. Some of you will be surprised to see how your child acts when you are not looking. Let's stop being scared that our children won't like us. Let's love them and give them the courage to stand up for their peers that can not.

i think it takes a sick human being to do something as hanis attacks on so many innocencent people who had there whole life ahead of them. i just graduated 1998 i couldnt imagine going threw something like that i was sick when i heard about it and i live in georgia

i say BLAME hollyweird.

enough violence already.

Coverage of Columbine was, for the most part, firmly on the sensationalistic end of the scale.

Intresting point, but misinformation can cut both ways as well and in the case of Columbine, I am very skepticial of a lot of that the police and the school have stated over the years.

but I still believe the overwhelming media coverage given to it only served to plant the idea of doing such things in more heads.

I personally that this this notion is not totally accurate since there have been instances where massacres occured and Columbine wasn't mentioned at all(at least among those who have done them, an example of this is what happened in Omaha, Neb. around a year ago or a little over) and I also personally think that this notion that the coverage "planted the idea" to do something ignores the problem and does little to address it.

Couldn't agree more.

A lesson to be learned apparently has yet to be learned. The tardiness of the police in going into the school and perhaps saving someone and the ham-fisted way they handled the survivors at Columbine was noted and criticised at the many post-mortems.10 years has passed and the police procedure seems unchanged.

Consider the tragic events in Binghamton. Police, called as the thing was unfolding, police from the City of Binghamton, Broome County and New York State Policemen declined to enter for 90 minutes. If this reaction by law enforcement is what they learned from Columbine and are taught today, we must demand law enforcement go back to school and come up with a more rapid procedure, more likely to minimize killing innocents and more likely to rapidly neutralize the doer.

The image I recall is that of the swat teams walking towards the school, some smiling for the cameras, proud to be seen in all of their macho equipment as if they were prepared to deal with armageddon. Then they stood behind the fire trucks for four hours or "escorted" students away from the school. Meantime a teacher bled to death and students waited hours for society to protect them. If you can't lay down your life for a school full of children you need to get another job, maybe security at Wal Mart.

Metal detectors and insane levels of school security are not the answer. Right after Columbine, adults started looking at (other people's) children with fear and apprehension - especially teenage children who didn't wear "normal" clothes or listen to "normal" music. I was stopped several times on the street by police who just had to question me, because I was wearing Gothy clothes, and I was pulled out of classes so that the guidance counselors could ask me all sorts of patronizing questions about my home life. I would much, MUCH rather have been sitting in my class learning something.

Yes, I was horribly bullied for being "different"; yes, I had often wanted to hit a classmate who was giving me a hard time. Did I ever bring a gun to school? NO. Was I ever a danger to my felolow students or my teachers? NO. Did I resent being treated like some ticking time bomb waiting to happen? You bet your sweet bippy I did. Among other things, my parents taught me 1) kindness, 2) respect for life, 3) good manners, and 4) how to control my anger. They also managed to teach me this while working full-time jobs and going on business trips and doing all the other things that working parents do, and the sad truth is that a lot of parents these days are just "too busy" to sit down and talk with their kids, and they'd rather let the SCHOOL teach THEIR CHILDREN about kindness, morality, sex, drugs, and human relations. If you can't be bothered to raise your children, then don't have them!

Children are people, and they have to be taught how to behave and interact with other people, and if parents would take the time to know and understand and raise their children; if people would stop having children because they enjoy being pregnant; if teachers would stop suspecting that every child that doesn't fit in is going to snap one day... then just maybe our society would get somewhere.

I recently visited my old high school, and I was horrified to see what it has become: a prison. Intercoms on the front doors, like an apartment building in a bad neighborhood; glass entry booths in the lobby; security guards standing by the exits; and checkpoint after checkpoint to ensure that everybody is doing what they're supposed to. This is a very small rural school in the middle of a cornfield! My nine-year-old niece tells me that in her elementary school - which is on the other side of said cornfield - they have steel gates that close off the hallways during classes so nobody can get in (or out), and you have to go through all those security checkpoints to get into the school, anyway. This is wretched.

We as a society are teaching our children to be afraid, afraid of anybody and everybody that doesn't "belong". Children are being overprotected, underprepared, and generally ignored by their parents. Dropping your kid off at soccer and then dance and then yoga and then cheerleading is not spending time with them. Shuttling them from place to place to give them some meaningless "structure" while somehow never managing to have all the family members around the dinner table at once IS NOT DOING THEM ANY GOOD. If you want your children to grow up to be decent human beings, then teach them to be that way yourself - and don't think that some school or movie or video game or show or religious leader is going to do it for you.

If we want to stop the violence, we have to stop the fear first.

Why is it so hard for schools to develop strong surveillance tactics through their tech departments? I've known of schools that pull kids out of study hall to help with cafeteria labor, and it's not unusual for kids to get extra credits for things like library assists or other chores that the academic staff might need help with. Sometimes kids are even paid small wages to contribute to projects.

I totally agree with Kimberly. Those of us who lived through it WILL NEVER FORGET that day nor will we forget those that lost their lives. I live in Englewood Colorado and my daughter was in elementary school on that April day. I do think it is important though for school officials to remember what could happen and continue to keep security procedures in place.

I am from Littleton as well and I was working as a teacher's aide at Coronado Elementary school on April 20, 1999. Coronado Elementary is just about 1 1/2 miles southwest of Columbine High School. Some of the teachers I worked with had children at Columbine and they were panicking as we were hearing the reports from school officials. All the schools in Jefferson County were on lock-down which meant, no one goes in and no one goes out and all doors are locked. I worked in the Kindergarten class room by the front door of the school and parents were pounding on the doors crying and pleading to let them in to get their children out. I wanted so badly to let them in as I myself I had three children at two other schools in the neighborhood. I could only tell these parents that their children were safe inside and for them to just hold on until we could get approval to let them in. I was terrified for my own children so I knew just how these parents felt. The reports coming in to the school were so unbelievable. Somehow these little five year olds could sense something was wrong, because they all just started crying and calling for their moms and dads. It was one of the worst days of my life. Finally, we were able to let parents in, if they had proper identification and signed their children out. As soon as I was able, I ran and got my children and went home. We could hear all the sirens and helicopters hoovering above as I live about two miles from Columbine High School. This was way before everyone carried a cell phone and I needed to get home and call my family. My mother was a basket-case as she knew I worked in a school but she didn't know which one. When I called my mom, I could hear the relief in her voice that we were all okay. To this day, I replay that over and over in my head. I believe that the school system was partially to blame for what happened that day. The reason I believe that is because the schools in the Littleton area have always seemed to look the other way when there are problems. I can't tell you over the years, how many times my children were subjected to harassment by other students and nothing was done about it. Until we as a society stand up and say enough is enough, this type of event will just keep happening.

because sir...the media, as a whole, is far left....

1) "if only there was stricter gun control..." Anti-gun

2) "if only the police/teachers would have acted sooner.." More government control and prying into peoples lives

They will use this, and other stories like this (e.g. Birmington, Virgina Tech), to push there beliefs on the rest of us.

The media is full of hypocrites....they decry the Bush administration for spying on international calls....then call for the government (teachers/police) to pry into peoples lives to "prevent another tragedy".......

don't believe me???

remember Waco, TX???? The government KILLED 80+ American citizens (BTW Eric Holder, our new AG, was a part of that...Janet Reno's right hand man). Does anybody remember the coverage? It was OK for them to kill those people....they WERE religous nuts....

rememer Ruby Ridge? THE ATF SHOT AN 11yo KID IN THE BACK, AND KILLED A PREGNANT WOMAN!!!!!! But that was OK because they WERE right-wing extremists.

In a society were "if we spy on the terrorists, we lose our values, so they win"...that thought process works both ways...but not to the media....so in closing....

1) spying on international calls, un-american......spying on ACTUAL AMERICAN CITIZENS..needed to "prevent another tragedy..."

2) chasing and killing enemies of America, ILLEGAL!!!!......burning American citizens alive and shooting 11yo kids and pregnant women, perfectly justified.....

The media are far leftists...and they will not rest until we are all under the thumb of their bosses...The Federal Government (U.nited S.ocialist A.mericas)

to lookitupgenius, 

 thanks for reading my mind.  you appear to be a person that derives their intel from common sense thinking and not allowing liberal media to form your outlook as so many who just go with the flow and believe what they hear without filtering out the bias.

Both of you actually are just repeating what is commonly put out their by elitist media outlets. Yes the government is killing its citizens, and police are just the enforcers for the wealthy. No, they do NOT protect and serve. But you are WRONG. The republicans are just as guilty, the rightists...there is really only one party in this country, a party that divides and conquers just like they were taught in basic poli sci courses- pure Machiavelli. The sooner you realize that it is not about race or party, but class, that the super wealthy are defecating on us all, the better.

Sadly the number of these rampages that happen yearly actually has been in a constant decline. It's just that the news is reporting more and more on it because thats what people respond to.

Well said Shiela.

Very well said, Sheila...your post made me cry again...which I often do when reading about Columbine, and remembering that day...

Had to take grandson to football and baseball games AT Columbine, not too long after this devastation happened...and that was as difficult as your visit to the Memorial.

One can never forget the horror one felt at hearing of these youth atrocities.I lived through Detroit`s "murder capitol" days,moved back to Boston and went through the same thing in the eighties and nineties,just two weeks ago,a young man killed his two sisters,one a college bound 17,and decapitated his 5 year old baby sister.I have fought for real job training for the idle youth for 35 years,only to be rejected by the clergy and politicians,that love to complain about the problem,but,deter people like me that lives among the gangs and know them as neighborhood children.I`ve found out what profit is in the juvenile delinquent system,and how many jobs woulb be lost if a successful anti-gang project takes the youth out of the system.I designed an entrepreneur project to put the youth into their own corporations.I had a fake grant promised me,so,I looked up the farm - 116acres in Georgia,and prefab cottages and cabins at 10,000.a piece,greenhouses,work stations and the like,the children love my project because it would give them proftable businesses.I tried to raise startup capital for this to no avail.I am active in the Human Rights Movement and based the training on connecting the hip-hop nation worldwide to participate in this training.I chose brick-making as the primary skill because the forests are being depleted and the earth`s slums need fixing,food needs to be grown,bath fixtures are needed and all training will produce needed items."Idle hands are the devil`s workshop"-my elders taught me.We in the ghetto have always known where the drugs and guns come from,and the officials that let them happen.These young people are looking for a way out from the peer pressure and gang loyalty.I pray that God will send me a rich donor.I will try to incorporate-Youth International, next month,but,my social security may not cover the lawyer fee,so,I`ll keep looking for startup capital,and hope the farm`s still available,it has deer on it also. Let us all pray for what`s to be our future leaders.Yours in truth,Ruby

Bert,

Do you really have any idea of what current gun control laws are or what it takes to be able to obtain a weapon LEGALLY? Do you realize the overwhelming majority of handgun owners purchase their weapon LEGALLY? Do you think someon who is warped or out of touch we reality really cares how they commit the act? I bet you were in favor of tougher AXE control laws after the Lizzy Borden incident?

Seriously, those of us who own weapons do want the same outcome you desire, that being one where no one is ever hurt or killed at the hand of some mad individual using a weapon. Unfortunately history has shown that someone looking to commit the act will find the means albeit via a knife, stone, club, or simply with their bare hands. There are some bad apples in the batch and when we come across them we simply need to toss them out.

John, under current law, you have to have a background check when purchasing a gun from a dealer. If you are buying one from an individual, no background check is required and it's perfectly legal for anyone to sell a gun to any mentally ill person or criminal.

If Bert must wave a bloody shirt to further his agenda, maybe he'd be a little more civil if the shirt he waved didn't belong to some family's child.

Oh Bert, Bert, Bert,

We don't need more gun control laws on the books.  We need to enforce the sensible one's we already have, get rid of the idiotic ones that don't work and, most importantly, teach positive methods of anger management and depression treatment.  Its a long held addage, guns don't kill people, people kill people.  That gun did not jump into the killer's hands and say "shoot me, shoot me."  Those boys made a concious decision to pick up a gun and go on a rampage.  They CHOSE to do what they did, the gun was simply the tool.  Same with the bombs.  They could have just as easily grabed the closest kitchen knife in mom's uttensil drawer and gone on a rampage with that.  The results would probably have been just as bad, because school resource officers can't carry weapons.  I bet you also don't know that in Switzerland EVERYONE is trained on firearms, and incidentaly, they have the lowest rate of gun related crime.  Several years ago Australia banned guns, and surprise surprise, Gun related crime went UP 300% in many areas, why, because the honest people turned in their guns, but the criminals kept theirs, knowing that no one else would have one.

On another note.  As a resident of Colorado, who was a High School student in the same district as Columbine at the time of the shooting, knew the librarian, was in the library the week before this, and someone who sat IN CLASS and watched as police came into my class room 2 weeks later and removed a student who had a knife and "intent to kill" peraphenalia (a hit list) in his locker, I am offended by your heartless comment.  This is neither the time nor the place to bring this up.  Clearly you have been watching too much Michael Moore.  The next time you live through a tragic event like this and sit as close to it as I did, then you will have earned the right to discuss this.  Right now I feel I speak for all of us when I say "We are Columbine" and you will never understand.  This was never about guns, this was about the tragic loss of promising lives at the hands of psychopaths who were hell-bent on going out in a blaze of glory and would have done this with bows and arrows if need be.

bert you are an idiot if you think that gun control is the answer, when you control who owns guns the only ones that will haveguns are the criminials they will always find a gun whenever they want one

the better option would have been to have armed teachers to stop them sooner the police can only respond to what happens sfter the fact and then they have to procede with caution so they do not cause more trouble

most shooters are cowards and if they knew someone would be shooting back they might think before they started doing it

and before anyone brings up virginia tec, a few armed students could have stopped him sooner, humans have the flight or fight response, we need to learn to follow fight rather than run away or duck for cover(flight) if they were taught how to fight even without a weapon they could make a difference, ie. like they rere teaching kids to throw books or anything they could get their hands on to distract the gunman they could make a difference this was stopped because too many panty waist parents did not like it - better to try to save yourself or someone else than to just lay down and die

In my opinion,

maybe its time to repeal the second amendment and replace it with one that gives states the right to have a national guard etc and makes owning a gun not a right but a privlage(SP) which can be easily taken away. Under the new amendment people will still be able to own guns but guns can be regulated by communities, counties, states and the federal government and if one community wants them gone, so be it. If another community wants things the way they were in the wild west, so be it, Community Standards you know!!!

So, NRA why do you support people owning assault weapons? there is no need. there are plenty of Hunting Rifles, shot guns, and non-automatic pistols to defend the family. Assault guns are ment for the military they are no good in hunting.

And thats my opinion.

Omg. Don't you get it? The criminals obviously won't follow those gun control laws, but the good, law abiding citizens will. Who does that leave with all the weapons?

You must be stupid and terribly misinformed as our 2nd amendment rights have absolutely nothing to do with any of these senseless shootings or violence ! In fact the left wing ignorant of the obvious media and bleeding heart morons are the main cause ! For they somehow think lobbying and more laws will stop violence ! How convenient for your pansy-ass liberal agenda elitist government ! People , Americans have had our right to keep and bear arms for over two centuries in this nation and this type of bull@!$%# was never prevalant until recently . Especially since the liberal media sensationalizes it every chance they get even when their words,facts and opinions are complete hogwash that anyone other than weak-assed sheeple can see right through ! You the liberal media and the whole liberal agenda killed these whom were copycatted as you gave the other sickoes a great pattern to follow and emulate ! Shame on you and you will reap the consequences of your ideals which you think you can shove down everyone's neck ! Kill millions in the womb ! Unborn wonderful Americans ! How can these young people respect life when you constantly tell them to murder precious infants ?! Even if you outlawed every gun on earth you could never clean that stain from your souls ! Repent for the true and righteous judge awaits you ! Stop trying to gain a status you never can attain without a saviour !

Bert,

Besides the fact that none of the firearms were "legal" and the two shooters weren't trying to hide behind the Second Amendment;

"Sensible" gun laws require equally "sensible" waivers of other liberties, so authorities can detain you, enter your home, or watch you. Do not confuse "gun laws" with laws that intend to punish violence - they are not. Those laws are there to punish after-the-fact; you want to punish before-the-fact.

You have a choice: either waive your liberties for a vague promise of "protection" (which the courts have already ruled, don't apply to individuals), or wait until someone actually does something.

Only that's not acceptable these days, is it?

What a bunch of gun hop heads.  You ought to think about the psychological effects of having guns so prevalently on display.  I agree, in America we will never be able to legislate our gun problem.  But we need to work on our humanity.  Why in the lord's name would anyone support the ready availability of assault weapons?  As to Columbine, as someone said, it can't be about the guns.  It is about the heartbreaking loss of somebody's children.  Killers will always be among us, sad to say.  Your guns rarely do any good in that regard. 

It's time to train and equip volunteers from amongst the school administration and faculty to carry the means to protect our children, concealed firearms.

Having dealt with school administrations and teachers - both as a student and as a parent - I can say I wouldn't trust the school administrators to take care of my dog, let alone carry guns to deal with a problem, while tragic in its consequences, is exceedingly rare. I would actually be more worried of the teachers losing control of their firearms to a student.

And before I get jumped on with, "What if it was your child?", that doesn't make the incidence of school shooting any more likely.

As a child of a principal, there is no way that my mom should ever carry a gun in school.

Izod, I would think it a better idea to have a trained police officer(s), professional security officers, military trained personel, whatever, hired by the school to protect the students. The teachers and administrators should be trained to get the students to safety not be waving guns around. At my kids school, there is an officer available at the school all day, every school day.

Be;

"Trained personnel" is "Trained personnel", regardless of where you get them.

Also - while your available officer is there - and probably capable enough - I'd rather suspect it is more to watch for drugs and contraband (which may include guns, yes) than actually stepping up during an act of violence.

Here's hoping he's willing to do the latter, if the time comes.

didn't the parents of young HARRIS take him in for help, and the mental health system did not help him?

Yes, he was on Luvox or something like that. Experts said he was a pure Pyschopath, their was no way he could be helped.

I have always wondered what happened to the parents of Eric and Dylan? What have their lives been like the last ten years? As a parent, I don't know if I could go on....losing a child is bad enough but to know that my child killed and maimed and cause so much damage to so many people...how would I cope with that? I would think that everday would be a living nightmare. Does anyone know where the parents are and how they are coping?

I've wondered that myself. I felt as sorry for them as for the other parents. As you noted, losing a child and knowing what that child did is beyond comprehension. And added to that, I also remember the tremendous hated and finger pointing - and I think lawsuits - that were directed at THEM.

Carolina John, are you serious, you can't be. If you are, some one should be be watching you !!.

Obama is not going to take away your right to own a gun. I do believe there should be stricter gun laws and that there should be a background check before a person buys a gun. People shouldn't own machine guns. Though we all know you can buy whatever on the black market.

Tisha, This only serves to show how uninformed you are on the topic. For one, there is a background check done on every gun purchase, and YOU CANNOT BUY A MACHINE GUN IN THE US.

This is also why the "90% of Mexican drug cartel guns coming from gun stores in the US" is not even remotely possible. The real number is 90% of some 5600 guns siezed and traced over the past several years came from various sources in the US. Most of those were actually guns sold to the Mexican Army and police by the US! there were nearly 30,000 guns siezed during that same time period that the Mexican army did not allow us to trace or were untraceable. These were sold by the ship loads to the drug cartels by China and Russia.

Tighter gun laws will not do anything to reduce violent crimes, this has been proven over and over again in country after country that has tried. Even in our own country, the cities with the tightest restrictions on guns have always had the highest violent crime rates.

CarolinaJohn's statements are a sarcasm that is thrown out there by an anti-gun idiot that thinks he will make us responsible gun owners look like potential domestic terrorists.

I have taught hundreds of people gun safety and responsible gun ownership, many of them carry concealed weapons with a permit. NONE have ever drawn their gun on or shot anyone! I do not think every man, woman, and child needs to carry a gun, but I think every man, woman, and child should take a gun safety and ownership responsibility course. If you had, you would be better informed, and you would not be making the statements you made.

CarolinaJohn;

Do you really believe an arming everyone will make us all safer? Astonishing opinion. The fact remains that gun owners are statistically more likely to be killed by their own guns than killing anyone else. I hope, in your case, you become a part of that higher probability group.

Shoot first? WHOA!!! The maturity and KNOWING when to use deadly force is what We, the People are not to be entrusted with - and you would prove that to be right. For shame!

I agree everyone should be armed - except THAT is as much a violation of liberty as gun control. In fact- the approach is "gun control", because actually changing the Constitution would be near impossible on the subject. Better to confuse the meaning and try to violate the Constitution and see if you can get away with it.

Since the gun-control lobby has no basis or limits or even a fixed position, their best approach is compromise: every year or so, ask for much more and get a little more compromise from the other side - who cannot ask for more than what's given in the Amendment.

So each compromise in the name of "sensible" gun laws reduces your (and my) liberty just a little bit. The same can be said for the first, fourth, ninth and tenth Amendments.

Think it's just the second under fire? Think again.

Anyone who does not believe Obama will try to interfere is delusional. He and the top dogs in Congress are of one mind - and your liberty isn't part of that thinking.

That is absolutely absurd. Who would you shoot first? The person with the gun? But, of course, you are also getting shot because you are someone else's "person with a gun."

Tisha, please do some research on what gun laws we already have before advocating stricter ones. There are already background checks required before purchasing a gun. It is also already illegal to own a "machine gun" without a special license that is not even available in alot of areas.

Doug:

If every household was forced to own a gun, what would you do with yours?

Has it occurred to you that owning a gun has little to do with mass shootings?

I'm sure you wouldn't be walking around with your gun strapped to your waist, threatening harm to anyone who crossed you. In the same way, whether or not guns are available, there are people who do just that - threaten everyone they encounter because of some phychological defect within themelves.

The fact remains if person wants to go on a shooting rampage they will make it their business to acquire a gun. If merely killing is a motive, they will find a way to burn the school down.

Screw the second amendment. I just want to protect myself from the improbability that at some time some day somewhere I will run up against someone who wants to take advantage of my lack of strength. I demand of myself that I do what I can to prepare for all occurances, good or bad. If I don't, I have nobody to blame but myself. After all, I am the only one guaranteed to be there, at the time some bad incident finds me. If and when this happens, I prefer to trust my defense to myself. I will have nothing more pressing at the time to keep me from protecting myself.

Can't you see a gun as one form of protection in our society, the way it is today? People like you or like me don't need to carry guns around as a penis substitute. A gun is only one more tool to help keep one's llife as free from harm as is possible with so much crime and dysfunction in one's surroundings.

I agree there are lunatics on both sides of the "right to own firearms" battle . I have chosen the side that may not appear to be the "peaceful" side, but for me it is "peace of mind" through my "safety first" attitude. That includes protection of self and property for those scenarios most likely to occur.

I am against hunting and killing. I am also a lifetime NRA member. I don't agree that being a gun owner identifies me as a right-wing lunatic. The need for self-defense shouldn't have anything to do with one's politics. If my beliefs identify me as a leftist of sorts, they should not preclude me from owning a firearm for protection should the need occur. If I pay $500 for a house alarm, shouldn't I also pay $500 for another form of protection if it is possible to have more? One can never have too much protection.

Please think about gun owners in broader terms. Many may be among your own best friends. Gun ownership is not a political statement. It is a means of self-defense should the need ever arise; no more , no less.

It is my constititutional right to bear arms. I am a legal gun owner, purchased my gun through a legitimate business that required the necessary waiting period for me to have my gun. I have the right to protect my property and my loved ones.

If we outlaw guns and ammunition, then only outlaws will have guns and ammunition, along with our military and police forces. Part of my right to bear arms includes my right to protect myself from our government should that become necessary. Otherwise we will be living in a police run society, which breeds it's own lawlessness.

I do not hunt, I do not waive my gun around at people shouting "OH look!! I have a gun", rather it is safely placed so should the need arise, I will be able to defend myself as needed.

Jessix,

You are right that gun ownership in and of itself has little to do with mass shootings. The fact that gun ownership is ubiquitous has EVERYTHING to do with gun violence. "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight." True enough. Don't bring a gun either. Bring an Uzi. Going to an Uzi fight? Bring a bazooka. Ad infinitum. It's sad that you fear you will need to defend yourself with deadly force, because it GUARANTEES that should someone target you, they will certainly do so with deadly force.

Somehow, America must put its FEAR of violence to rest, if it is ever going to put violence itself to rest.

Here is something to think about. There are other western democracies that have similar levels of gun ownership to America, without nearly the level of violence Americans suffer through. They have universal healthcare, social welfare and much less income disparity than the US does.

Poverty + income disparity + guns = fear + death

Afganistan, Somalia, Venezula and America all share something in common.

Jessix,

You are right that gun ownership in and of itself has little to do with mass shootings. The fact that gun ownership is ubiquitous has EVERYTHING to do with gun violence. "Don't bring a knife to a gun fight." True enough. Don't bring a gun either. Bring an Uzi. Going to an Uzi fight? Bring a bazooka. Ad infinitum. It's sad that you fear you will need to defend yourself with deadly force, because it GUARANTEES that should someone target you, they will certainly do so with deadly force.

Somehow, America must put its FEAR of violence to rest, if it is ever going to put violence itself to rest.

Here is something to think about. There are other western democracies that have similar levels of gun ownership to America, without nearly the level of violence Americans suffer through. They have universal healthcare, social welfare and much less income disparity than the US does.

Poverty + income disparity + guns = fear + death

Afganistan, Somalia, Venezula and America all share something in common.

are you kidding me they alredy do this in russia and guess what a few years ago they had a school shooting that mirrored colimbine that proves the old saying guns dont kill people people kill people.

Great points...Guns suck for sure!!

Great points...Guns suck!

Wow Paul...that's it? "Guns Suck!"...You sound like a 12 year old girl agreeing with her friends. Guns don't suck, they blow...peoples brains out, but only when SOMEONE PULLS THE TRIGGER. Guns dont just load themselves, chamber a shell, and start selectively killing people. Guns dont kill people...psychopaths kill people. Anyone who commits random or planned acts of violence toward innocent people deserves to be punished accordingly. Criminals and guns are a bad combination, but if you put a criminal in prison, they can accomplish the same thing they did with a gun on the outside with a tooth brush or a bedsheet on the inside. There are many people in the united states that own guns and do not commit acts of violence. How many people do you think commit violent crimes with firearms that are registered in their own names? I am sick of people trying to act as if ANYONE regardless of age or felon status can walk into a gun store and buy a gun with no questions asked. In order to LEGALLY own a gun you must provide identification and background checks are ran to see if you are a convicted felon, verify age, ensure the appropriate waiting perioods have been met, and register the sale of that weapon. Also, you cannot purchase a fully automatic weapon legally in the united states @ a gun show or from a gun dealer. If you want fully auto you must go through a ton of red tape and be subject to the ATF randomly searching your property...if you are approved. Also the fully automatic weapon must be manufactured prior to I believe 1987...so most of the weapons the media tries to say are readily available to anyone- couldn't even be owned by someone that went through the trouble of applying for a fully automatic weapon. I see ABC news showing picks of M60, M249a SAW, and other belt fed machine guns as if they can be purchased by civilians. The weapons that people are referring to when they say assault weapons are weapons like the civilian M4, AR-15, AK-47 etc. These are not fully automatic like the military grade weapons that have the same names and fire the same ammunition, they are semi-auto. Most of these weapons fire a .223 caliber and are not even classifed as a large enough round to hunt big game such as deer. Therefore they are no more of an assault weapon than any semi automatic rifle commonly used for hunting. Same fire rate-one squeeze of the trigger, one bullet. As far as magazine size...someone that intends on killing someone can accomplish the same end result with one shot from a bolt action 30-06 rifle with a magazine capacity of around 5 as they could with an ak-47 with a 40 round mag...Its all in who is using the firearm and for what purpose. If a person wants to own a gun...that is their right as an american. If a person wants to obtain a license to carry a concealed handgun...they can apply for that type of thing. These are not the people that are killing people. These people will probably never kill anyone. They own their gun simply so they can protect themselves, their families, and their property. Someone said earlier that they think that it is sad that people feel they have to own a gun just to protect themselves from violent threats...Welcome to reality. Sad but true.

Doug,

To truly - and successfully - accomplish what you want, you will need to abolish and destroy ALL guns - - and the knowledge of what they are.

Are you willing to go that far? Do you even realize how far that is?

As long as the knowledge exists, the threat exists - and you want to trust some stranger to protect you from that threat?

I did neglect to mention:

Guns are NOT the "only thing in our society that have the unique distinction that an individual’s rights trump " anything. ALL the things you mention have "individual rights" attached (read your Tenth Amendment), but we allow THEM to be trumped, because they are also considered "evil" things.

Guns are demonized as threats to "Public Safety", but there are numerous other threats that cause greater (though less sensational) damage: knives, blunt trauma (club, axe, etc), and automobiles for a short list. These ALL trump Public Safety - or they would be outlawed.

Your vision of "Public" Safety cannot exist in a country that truly desires liberty - the same as a free country cannot exist that puts "Public" Safety ahead of liberty.

It's more a question of responsibility: either People are to be considered responsible - or not.

JESSIX, it scares me to think of you on a jury. it seem you have completely misunderstood that mother's statement. she is saying she loved him 100%.

I agree donotsteal

You dont see Harris parents running away from the situation.

The Klebolds are nice people, they loved their children.

Neither Mrs Klebold, or Mr Klebold believed in viloence or guns, or drugs, that is why the kicked Brian out of the house(drug useage) because they didnt want Dylan around it.

She wished she knew how bad her son hurt, Do you know how she feels, no! she has to live with out her son day by day, and knows he was a killer which makes it ten times worse and she has to remember that day and lord knows has anyone asked how she felt, and how much she missed her son,no.

Yeah i know he killed and injured, but people SHE WAS his mother. It was their child.

oops i mean the

The Klebold's not running from the situation

The Harris's just moved again to avoid it.

Bob and his history lesson suggest some Americans haven't thought much about the role of the arms industry in your society. Why do you need a gun when your government spends more than any other on sophisticated powerful weapons to defend the nation ? Bob, if your army can destroy anything and everything in a mili second, what good will your S&W do ? Are you going to shoot at a missile ?? Sadly, it seems cowardice is at the root of many of the refusals to relinquish a 'civil liberty' that is mainly designed to deprive others of theirs : cowardice to recognise one's own fear, cowardice to accept life is subject to some unknown variables and finally, cowardice by some to forego the vast financial benefits provided by the manufacture of weapons. Didn't anyone listen to Mr. Moore ?

Bob, after reading all your information, I honestly don't know how anyone can be against our right to bear arms!! Thanks for the information

Thank you Bob!

Andy - What my S&W or any of the many other brands I own will alow me to do is protect myself against the Criminals. Like the ones that have been forcing their way in to houses in the evening and robbing entire families, rapeing and killing. Kick my door open and the 45 laying on the table by my chair will be used to double tap you in the chest. I legaly conceal a weapon at all times in public. I have not had too but will not hesitate to use it, to protect myself, or any one else who is in danger at the hands of some thug. Not long ago in Philadelphia at man felt as though another had cut him off, driving, when traffic stopped, he got out of his car and walked up to the other car and shot and killed the guy infront of his 3 yr old daughter. Had the victim had is own gun, and stayed alert, he would have shot the thug in the face as he approched him. If you believe the govt. will launch missiles at individuals or even use machine guns on individuals you are as dumb as you sound. When a criminal choses a victim, if they have to also consider that victim may be armed 50% of the time their odds of pulling off a crime go down. If 21 year old college students who pass background checks got concealed weapons, some one whould double tap the SOB thats walks in and starts shooting. They may kill one or two by elimate of surprise, but not the numbers we see at Virginia Tech and others.

For those who feel our educators are not trustworthy or capable of carrying concealed weapons; These are the people who educated you, and your children, possibly even our parrents. If they are not smart enough as I understnd your comments to cary and use a weapon, what would that say for the millions of people they have been responsible for the basic education of? Look in the mirror!

Gun control - If you can't control your gun, you should not have one.

To andy:

Like so many other comments I've read on here, you obviously ignored the entire premise of Bob's post. "Are you going to shoot a missile"? Really? He's talking about DOMESTIC violence. Are you suggesting we employ our mighty army to resolve break-ins and muggings? WOULD PEOPLE WHO COMMENT ON HERE PLEASE ACTUALLY READ THE MATERIAL BEFORE YOU SPEAK. You embarrass the English-speaking world when you respond with ignorant commentary. For the record, our government does NOT spend more than any other on our armed forces, per capita. DON'T MAKE HOLLOW STATEMENTS FROM UNINFORMED MINDSETS. All you do is undermine an already tenuous ability of the public to communicate in an informed and civilized manner. Sarcasm has its place outside of political and social discussion.

I agree with the right to bear arms. But I also believe in my right to NOT bear arms. I thought Nick's post saying, "It's sad that you fear you will need to defend yourself with deadly force, because it GUARANTEES that should someone target you, they will certainly do so with deadly force." was dead on. I don't feel targeted, perhaps because I won't carry or own a gun. I think it's okay for "you" (those who want them and qualify under the licensing regulations) to own a gun, and merely hope that you don't think that makes it okay to shoot me for whatever reason "you" should think to target me. (I'm sorry if I cut you off in traffic - I must not have seen you - I really try to be courteous!) I think the knowledge that one might be targeted by someone with a gun makes one who carries a gun with them more likely to be offensive and resort to violence sooner than they might otherwise - it gives them a sense of confidence that they might not back down from based on the fear that someone would "call them" on it. I would rather talk over issues, even if we agree that we will never be able to agree on a subject. Living in fear just is not my style. AND I suspect because of my not "living by the sword" I have not been in a situation where I was ever threatened to "die by the sword".

andy'

I guess this "coward" must call you an idiot, to equate small arms for defense of self from other, less enlightened souls than yourself with the super wham-o-dyne, vaporize-everything-in-sight military complex. That's comparing peas to pumpkins.

BTW - any self (and Constitution) - respecting citizen of these united States wouldn't actually listen to mad Micheal Moore: just enjoy the entertainment

Truer words have never been spoken. One would think we would learn from our past....

I am 58 y/o. There have always been bullies in schools. And in the small Texas town I grew up almost all the boys had guns by the time they were in high school. Or at least had access to them at home. Some guys even carried them in their pickups on gun racks covering the rear window that could be seen by all. Probably even drove some of those pickups to school....I don't remember. There was an occassional fight at school, but no bloody beatings or knives pulled. PEOPLE HAVE CHANGED. Most teenagers were Christians back then, or at least went to church and had some Christian values. Most parents backed the school and the police. PEOPLE HAVE CHANGED. How and why can be endlessly debated. But people and society have changed for the worse and there is nothing that we can do about it except try to survive. Gun control, etc., is for people who simply cannot stand the thought that some - or many - people can simply be EVIL.